I wonder if any of you can relate to this. I feel pretty screwed up with this, so not like general people are and i wonder if it has anything to do with being INFP

so here I go

Normaly I have a good sense of who I am, what I stand for and I'm pretty happy with myself. But when I'm in a situation with people who judge me and point me my good and bad characteristics, or when I'm with people who I admire and I want them to like me, I change inside. Than I become completely oriented outside and try so hard to know what I have to do to be accepted, I try to be acceptable. If I had to say it in MBTI language, I would think that I use Fe in a negative way. At those moments, I (as in my sense of who I am) is not there any more. I feel empty, uninteresting and useless. And I fear that other people get that vibe from me and tread me as I'm not interesting at all.

And afterwards it is hard to get the sense of ME again. Like trying to close a door in the middle of a tornedo. And I'm left with this horrible feeling like "what the hell was that all about, why did I do that" and I get so angry. Mostly I blame the others for making me feel that way, but it is not there fault at all. It is me, I can't accept myself at those moments. It is not that they didn't accept me as for who I am, how could they, they never got to see the real me because it vanished!!!

I wish other peoples opinion wasn't so important for me. That way I could remain being myself and I know there is enough value in my for other people to want to be friends with me. If it would only show on the surface in stead of vanishing...!

Thinking about this problem, I wonder if it has anything to do with my P-function. Normaly I don't see myself in fixed terms. I can't say I'm this, I'm that. I can not be defined. I can be a scientist or a philosofer, but in reality I'm neither one of them. I'm more like a feeling, an ever changing feeling. And maybe the problem occures when other people try to put me into boxes. And than I startle big time. Like "auch my vision on reality is completely fault, screwed up". So I change my vision into the "fixed idea" vision of society, which gives me a bad feeling because it is not how I usely operates and I hate to put myself into boxes. So maybe it is that in those moments I use my shadow J function to describe and judge myself, which can operate but in a negative way?

is this something you can relate to or does I sound like a waweling lunatic to you?

I know just what you mean. I am the same way, although I don't see it as a bad thing-- rather, it's just a reflection of how profoundly experiences affect identity. You know, now that I think of it, I think everyone is as changeable as you are whether or not you notice it in them.

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Officially given up personality theory. I don't need a test to know myself!

I think everyone goes through this. Not just INFP's.
As I am a Psychology student, I will provide you with some of my Psychological wisdom...
There are 3 types of Self Presentation:
1. Self Verification: trying to get others to see you as you see yourself
2. Strategic Self Presentation: trying to shape impressions (e.g.: job interview, first date, etc.)
3. Self Monitoring: how much you regulate your own behavior to fit a social situation.

Self Monitoring appears to be the one you're talking about. A high self monitor is one who looks at regulating their behavior based on others. You said you'll change yourself in different social situations. That is what a high self monitor does. A low self monitor is the opposite. They want everyone to know who they are.
I used to be a high self monitor. After I learned about this though, I have aspired to be a low self monitor.

I think it may have something to do with P/J-ness as well. I always have not put myself in a certain "box" of beliefs unless I believe really strongly about something. I used to think there was something wrong with my indecision, but at some point I came to the conclusion that it helps me...makes me more open-minded. Maybe you could think of that. We're more open-minded people us indecisive P's.

interesting!!!!!!!!! I was almost certain that I was the only one, oef! :-)

it feels bad for me because it brings me of balance, makes me an unbalanced person. It can go on for months you know that I'm in this 'state' and it ruins every sense of who I am, which I have to built up again afterwards

yes I think the "self monitoring" is what I use mostly. So when I'm alone I don't have to regulate my behavior so I am who I am while in public I change myself. I always do that but sometimes I go over the top and lose every sense of what is me.

I agree on the P thing, being more p helps me to be more open-minded and that feels better than being fixed

pretendtherespurpose, how does it work on you and how do you handle this/life with it?

evening_sky, can you go something deeper in this psychology thing and how did you learn to be a low self monitor?

I'm glad you're interested! I love psychology!
I will elaborate further, but scientifically speaking, all I can really find is a correlation between age and self monitoring. The older you get, the less flexible you are. Citing: http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1989-32521-001&CFID=5102195&CFTOKEN=14257403 Now onto theories/counseling...
If you google it you can find ways to score yourself to reach your goal. Such as this: http://behavioural-psychology.suite101.com/article.cfm/their_opinion_matters (btw...I got a 32 on that quiz...so I am a "middle self monitor" Though, like every psychological quiz...it always depends on the situation.) I would suggest thinking about it for a while first. Being a high self monitor, although it means you apparently "change" your opinions in the presence of others, it also means you look more flexible and less obtrusive. Being a low self monitor, although it makes you firm on your opinions, it can also help you make enemies. Even with people who are already your friends.
The way to be a low self monitor is simply by telling everyone how you REALLY feel. I however, have obviously not gone THAT far but I took a step tonight by opening an anonymous twitter account where I will say what I REALLY think! Muwhahaha! lol@me. Now just to get followers that care...haha...
I think it may be a battle of the F and our general love and caring. Whereas we are trying to hold true to our gut instinct by F, we are held back by our caring side.
Other psychological terms you may consider in your quest to figure out where you want to lie on the self monitoring continuum are as follows:
~Need for Affiliation: those with a high need for affiliation need to be surrounded by many friends (even if they may be shallow)
~Need for Intimacy: those with a high need for intimacy need at least one really close friend.
Even more so, Social Psychology is an amazing topic to study. You'll find that most people really DON'T know who they are (that was one of the first things we covered, haha). Of course, it reveals some scary things about human nature as well.
However, back into our basis of personality here... I bet you'd find this interesting as I did...can't remember if it was one of my professors or someone on GC who said this: some extreme extroverts actually RARELY THINK! Can you imagine never stopping to even wonder who you are?

Sounds to me then that being a healthy middle self-monitor is probably the best place to be on the scale, because it means you've learnt to balance self-assertiveness with social flexibility.



That makes sense to me, though I'd add that I think things like enneagram type have a part to play too (socially ambitious type 3's are probably more prone to being high self-monitors than morally driven type 1's for example).



I'd argue that it would be more accurate to say that there are extreme extraverts who rarely introspect, they probably do plenty of thinking, just not about themselves. Of course, at the same time there are extreme intraverts who rarely extrospect too. In fact I'd probably argue that most people don't do enough of either.

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What would the world be, once bereft
Of wet and of wildness? Let them be left,
O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet. - Gerard Manley Hopkins

I kind of enjoy my adaptability. It makes me feel like a different person sometimes, just for fun. Once I hung out with a bunch of "nerds" for a day, listening to them make video game references and give each other math puzzles and such, and for a while I actually felt as interested in those things as they were.

Extrospect is a word? That's strangely awesome; I need to use it more! Let me add that to my list. *mentally writes "extrospect" under Forsooth, Pelf, and Bewail*

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Officially given up personality theory. I don't need a test to know myself!

*is pleased to have found this thread as is currently playing Scrabble*

Well, it's sort of a word. The dictionary doesn't have a definition for it but it does have definitions for "introspect", "introspective", introspection" and "extrospective" (and in on-line dictionaries "extrospection" automatically redirects to "observation").

Doesn't seem fair to me that all the "intro"'s are recognised but not the "extro"'s, so as far as I'm concerned from now on all the variations for "extro" that already exist for "intro" are real words.

I hadn't heard of "pelf" before though:



That reminded me of another word that you don't hear much these days: "illth".



Maybe we should start an "Interesting Words" thread, for all the scrabble fans on the site.

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What would the world be, once bereft
Of wet and of wildness? Let them be left,
O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet. - Gerard Manley Hopkins

I got 29, so I guess I'm as extrospective as I am introspective.
Oh yes, I actually came across both "pelf" and "forsooth" while reading the lyrics to Seraphic Deviltry by Theatre of Tragedy, not that I understood the song even after looking up the vocabulary.

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Officially given up personality theory. I don't need a test to know myself!

Heh, I've been familiar with "Olde English" words like "forsooth" and "verily" since I was a little kid, probably something to do with being British I expect.

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What would the world be, once bereft
Of wet and of wildness? Let them be left,
O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet. - Gerard Manley Hopkins

For me it has something to do with being Finnish I expect... when learning the language I didn't really make difference between old/new British/American English. I've heard it makes my writing seem archaic. Different.

Actually I think I can express myself better in English, because I don't really think about the meaning and nuances of words when speaking/writing Finnish.

Blah blah

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-(Fantastic! Everything is beautiful!)

I can't believe it took me this long to find this post, but I would just like to offer up that I often feel this way and while I know I am not the only one, I am often the only one in my immediate knowledge who even has the capacity or predisposition to think like that, with a scant few exceptions. So you should just know that you're not alone, not at all. In fact, I don't believe anyone is alone in anything anymore, as there are so many people alive now and countless more that have come before, while it is true everyone is a unique individual, the human experience is very well recorded even if very poorly understood. I think it is more a matter of feeling isolated because you know nobody you are able to relate to, either in writing or in person, and that feeling of aloneness can start to grow and foster unhealthy patterns of thought.

In an MBTI sense, I think it is our Ne and partially our Si that recognises archetypes of people, social conventions and other such things, and in an effort both to communicate to people in a way they can understand and feel as though we are appreciated or belong, we can take on the characteristics of others in order to 'fit in' and be recognised in a positive light. The dangers with this, I find, is that a developed Ne and Te can lend itself to a substantial flexibility of thought, and without realising it my own thought process or opinions are subtly altered to become more like those of the people or environment I am currently in. I am rarely aware of this myself but sometimes other people bring it to my attention because I have wronged them, or they can tell there is something not quite right with me, at which point I usually apologise, explain, and attempt to centre myself. I lately find myself going back and forth between wanting to strike a rapport with as many people as I can, and wanting to completely isolate myself to calm the ensuing headache :|

Sometimes I wonder not only about what others think of me and how I appear on the outside, but I also think in an objective or existential sense, knowing that we are all animals, and I often wonder what on earth 'personality' actually is, and how we can all be so similar yet so different in certain areas, yet not so different that we are unable to relate these differences to each other (except in extreme cases). I am then given to wondering why I enjoy the things I do and what it is about our propensity to involve ourselves in distractions which from an outside perspective can seem utterly trivial and in a detached perspective seems utterly unproductive and useless but to us is utterly fascinating. However, I don't like these hyper-rational, analytical thoughts as I never used to have them and all they do is make my head hurt when they won't go away

There are a few things I find helpful to enable me to perform a 'self-check' and return to my true self, my baseline as it were. I'm quite sentimental when it comes to digital or electronic things I find, and as such I usually backup everything when I format or upgrade my computer. I have files on there that date back over 7 years, and I have little poems that I have found, prose I have written and things like that. I often find that chancing upon them and reading them is like dousing myself in cold water as I can often thing 'oh my god, what have I been doing lately'. Much as some people learn to check whether they are dreaming, I sometimes check myself to make sure I am not just sleepwalking through life complacently without much self awareness, as I have come to discover I have quite an advanced autopilot. Sometimes taking a walk and/or listening to my favourite music can help, and I try not to think about anything that may have enthralled my attentions (for example - a new book, a new game, a friend with an issue, etc.) and just still my mind. It's a case of not consciously thinking but of becoming calm, forgetting about external attachments and letting the answers come to you.

Oh, and I took that test and got a 29 also.

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We are beyond our own ability to define ourselves - we can only describe what we think we are.

Yeah. Oh man. I wish I had found this a year ago....I recently went through a royally f*cked up year of this mentality, not being able to remember who I was. Not being able to remember how to be authentic, not around anyone. It was pretty hellish and kind of messed me up for a while. Fortunately, I found out that one of my best friends...an ENFP 7...utterly understood my plight because she had been through a few years of Borderline Personality (basically an intensified version of not being able to remember the self, high need for intimacy, constant anxiety/depression ensues). Yeah, so there's a personality disorder of the intensified, more out of control version of this...place.

Important things I have found are to accept yourself, even if you are closing off. It's okay, it's not the end of the world. Acceptance helps you to recenter and frees you from anxiety, leaving you free to figure out what exactly you WANT to do. Focusing on what's happening instead of your internal processes helps a lot too. Acceptance is a big life-saver, though.

I would get more into this but it's time for me to write six pages for homework, eep! O_O

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“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” Jalal ad-Din Rumi

My spiritual explorations: http://sundrenchedclarity.wordpress.com

Old post, but I just wanted to add that what you said is so true, so honest and full of insight. The part I underlined makes a lot of sense to me based on my experiences.

When I was a young child, I realized how precious and "right" my feelings were - feelings about how beautiful the natural world was, or how beautiful forgotten individuals are, or how ugly people can become when they hurt others. For a time, I was ridiculed for being so introverted and so stuck on my judgments regarding what was agreeable and disagreeable, that I tried to make myself more pleasing toward others. But that just felt so fake, and I couldn't sustain that kind of behavior for long. Closer friends reassured me that I mattered to them just by being myself - and this mattered so much more to me than the opinion of others.

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Actually, that's quite interesting. Looking up at my post from just over a year ago (?! It's been so long?) I think I was stuck in a loop where it wasn't even my shadow function, necessarily, but my inferior Te trying to dissect me from an external vantage point and frustrating me because of course people are utterly incomprehensible. Thankfully my mind is much more tranquil now, and there is an element of acceptance. I've released myself from the need to 'understand' because it feels so much more right just letting me be myself, and letting that be an explanation unto itself. I'm also working on not losing my sense of self so much, too, because I was not always so malleable. Although I used to be more awkward socially because I was more self-conscious, at least I always had the peace of mind that results from a constant awareness of your inner direction. I will no longer be made to apologise for the person I am - just because I can see other points of view doesn't mean I have to agree or adopt them as my own.

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We are beyond our own ability to define ourselves - we can only describe what we think we are.

Yep. That is one of the worst feelings. I don't think it is limited to INFP people, however I do think we are more prone to feeling this way. Because we are extravertedly intuitive, we are gathering a lot of information from the people and environment around us but our strong introspection causes use to bring this information inside and project it onto ourselves. And if we feel insecure/threatened/inadequate, it becomes a lot easier to lose ourselves and become (temporarily) someone we don't know. And then because if we are strongly guided by our feelings, we will tend to awfulize this situation more than view it objectively. And our introspective nature causes us to focus more on ourselves in this group setting without noticing that others aren't necessarily as grounded in themselves as we think they are. At least it's easy to say this objectively, but when I think back on times when this has happened to me, it's harder to apply it to myself because I just get wrapped up in how horrible it felt to lose my identity and feel so vulnerable.

My first view, holy crap. I have one friend. He is an INFJ left handed male triple leo-in other words, a duck billed platypus. Becoming like him terrifies me. I have attempted to describe to him the feeling I have of not being able to be myself (whatever that is) around him. But of course, have utterly failed. This thread embodies the way that I feel around others, hence my need for solitude and my lack of sense of "self", as I have no self that I am familiar with....It is strange being a doppelganger, is it not? Thanks for this thread. It is a lifesaver. Now if I can only remember it. I smoke the stuff way too much, which probably does not help.