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Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:28 am Posts: 1761
Gender: female
MBTI type: ARRR
Enneagram type: 5w4
Enneagram Tritype: 549
Class: Pirate
I like my food: Delicious
Spoiler:
Quote:
Hugh Well, let's talk instead about flexibility of language - linguistic elasticity if you like.
Stephen I think I said earlier that our language, English -
Hugh As spoken by us -
Stephen As we speak it, yes certainly, defines us. We are defined by our language if you will, then please, for goodness' sake, do.
Hugh (To camera) Hullo! We're talking about language.
Stephen Perhaps I can illustrate my point - let me at least try. Here's a question: is our language capable, English this is, is it capable of sustaining demagoguery?
Hugh Demagoguery?
Stephen Demagoguery.
Hugh And by demagoguery you mean ...?
Stephen I mean demagoguery, I mean highly-charged oratory, persuasive whipping up rhetoric. Listen to me, if Hitler had been English would we, under similar circumstances have been moved, charged up, fired by his inflammatory speeches, or should we have laughed? Er, er, er, is English too ironic a language to support Hitlerian styles, would his language simply have, have rung false in our ears?
Hugh (To camera) We're talking about things ringing false in our ears.
Stephen Alright, alright, do you mind if I compartmentalise? I hate to, but may I? May I? Is our language a function of our British cynicism, tolerance, resistance to false emotion, humour and so on, or do those qualities come extrinsically - extrinsically, from the language itself? It's a chicken and egg problem.
Hugh (To camera) We're talking about chickens, we're talking about eggs.
Stephen Let me start a leveret here: there's language, the grammar, the structure - then there's utterance. Listen to me, listen to me, there's chess and there's a game of chess. Mark the difference, mark it for me please.
Hugh (To camera) We've moved on to chess.
Stephen Imagine a piano keyboard, eighty-eight keys, only eighty-eight and yet, and yet, new tunes, melodies, harmonies are being composed upon hundreds of keyboards every day in Dorset alone. Our language, Tiger, our language, hundreds of thousands of available words, frillions of possible legitimate new ideas, so that I can say this sentence and be confident it has never been uttered before in the history of human communication: "Hold the newsreader's nose squarely, waiter, or friendly milk will countermand my trousers." One sentence, common words, but never before placed in that order. And yet, oh and yet, all of us spend our days saying the same things to each other, time after weary time, living by clichaic, learned response: "I love you", "Don't go in there", "You have no right to say that", "shut up", "I'm hungry", "that hurt", "why should I?", "it's not my fault", "help", "Marjorie is dead". You see? That surely is a thought to take out for a cream tea on a rainy Sunday afternoon.
Hugh looks at camera, opens mouth as if to speak, decides against it. Speaks to Stephen instead.
Hugh So to you language is more than just a means of communication?
Stephen Er, of course it is, of course it is, of course it is. Language is a whore, a mistress, a wife, a pen- friend, a check-out girl, a complimentary moist lemon-scented cleansing square or handy freshen- up wipette. Language is the breath of God, the dew on a fresh apple, it's the soft rain of dust that falls into a shaft of morning sun when you pull from an old bookshelf a forgotten volume of erotic diaries; language is the faint scent of urine on a pair of boxer shorts, it's a half-remembered childhood birthday party, a creak on the stair, a spluttering match held to a frosted pane, the warm wet, trusting touch of a leaking nappy, the hulk of a charred Panzer, the underside of a granite boulder, the first downy growth on the upper lip of a Mediterranean girl, cobwebs long since overrun by an old Wellington boot.
Hugh Ner-night.
_________________
Last edited by crystaluniverse on Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:23 pm Posts: 116 Location: Auckland
Gender: male
MBTI type: INFP
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I like my food: Delicious
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:58 am Posts: 1904 Location: Halfway Down the Stairs
Gender: male
MBTI type: INFP
Enneagram type: 4w5 so/sx
_________________ What would the world be, once bereft Of wet and of wildness? Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet; Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet. - Gerard Manley Hopkins
Last edited by DefectiveCreative on Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I like the way that guy thinks, I find myself playing around with words like that too (sometimes).
Spoiler:
Kind of irritating that all the comments were just spam adverts for drugs and stuff though.
_________________ What would the world be, once bereft Of wet and of wildness? Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet; Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet. - Gerard Manley Hopkins
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:58 am Posts: 1904 Location: Halfway Down the Stairs
Gender: male
MBTI type: INFP
Enneagram type: 4w5 so/sx
crystaluniverse wrote:
I wonder if he's the same guy as this one. If so, then he's one interesting person, and eccentric like the stereotyped ENTP.
Different guys (Steve Crampton & Jack Winter).
And FWIW Mr. Winter doesn't strike me as an ENTP, mostly because of this bit at the end of the article:
Quote:
“He never struck me as an eccentric person,” said Mr. Berendt, who had kept up with Mr. Winter since college. “He was a more or less conventional man who fell in love with Pygmies and frogs and went to odd places for his vacation.”
_________________ What would the world be, once bereft Of wet and of wildness? Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet; Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet. - Gerard Manley Hopkins
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:28 am Posts: 1761
Gender: female
MBTI type: ARRR
Enneagram type: 5w4
Enneagram Tritype: 549
Class: Pirate
I like my food: Delicious
Quote:
Plussed to Find This Wieldy Tale Jack Winter, "How I Met My Wife," The New Yorker (July 25, 1994):
It had been a rough day, so when I walked into the party I was very chalant, despite my efforts to appear gruntled and consolate.
It's Steve's blog, but it's Jack's words.
Quote:
And FWIW Mr. Winter doesn't strike me as an ENTP, mostly because of this bit at the end of the article:
Quote:
“He never struck me as an eccentric person,” said Mr. Berendt, who had kept up with Mr. Winter since college. “He was a more or less conventional man who fell in love with Pygmies and frogs and went to odd places for his vacation.”
Housing frogs in your shower stall sounds a bit eccentric to me.
Spoiler:
I used to keep my goldfish in a bathtub, and I consider myself a bit peculiar.
Well, maybe it's just his Fi and not Ne-weirdness. Love can make us go mad.
Or maybe we should argue over the word "eccentric", since this is a linguistics thread.
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:58 am Posts: 1904 Location: Halfway Down the Stairs
Gender: male
MBTI type: INFP
Enneagram type: 4w5 so/sx
crystaluniverse wrote:
Quote:
Plussed to Find This Wieldy Tale Jack Winter, "How I Met My Wife," The New Yorker (July 25, 1994):
It's Steve's blog, but it's Jack's words.
Doh! Can't believe I missed that. I guess that's what happens when your Se is virtually non-existent.
Quote:
Well, maybe it's just his Fi and not Ne-weirdness. Love can make us go mad.
It could still be Ne, just not necessarily primary Ne, for example ISTJs often seem (to me) to have hobbies that might be considered "eccentric" (plane/train-spotting, building miniature ships out of matchsticks, stuff like that).
Quote:
Or maybe we should argue over the word "eccentric", since this is a linguistics thread.
"Eccentric: unconventional, especially in a whimsical way" - (Encarta)
I'd be willing to go out on a limb here and say that keeping frogs in your shower probably does qualify as eccentric behaviour.
But, if a person is considered completely normal in every respect except that they keep frogs in their shower (or something similar), is that enough for them to be considered an eccentric person? Or does behaviour that's considered eccentric have to be a fundamental part of your everyday demeanour for that to be the case?
_________________ What would the world be, once bereft Of wet and of wildness? Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet; Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet. - Gerard Manley Hopkins
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:28 am Posts: 1761
Gender: female
MBTI type: ARRR
Enneagram type: 5w4
Enneagram Tritype: 549
Class: Pirate
I like my food: Delicious
DefectiveCreative wrote:
Doh! Can't believe I missed that. I guess that's what happens when your Se is virtually non-existent.
*pats DC*
That's okay, coz you more than make up for the lack of it with the exemplary use of your other cognitive functions.
DefectiveCreative wrote:
It could still be Ne, just not necessarily primary Ne, for example ISTJs often seem (to me) to have hobbies that might be considered "eccentric" (plane/train-spotting, building miniature ships out of matchsticks, stuff like that).
That's right. (And my only real problem with that statement is that I am guilty of wanting to engage in eccentric hobbies like matchstick-ship building. )
DefectiveCreative wrote:
"Eccentric: unconventional, especially in a whimsical way" - (Encarta) I'd be willing to go out on a limb here and say that keeping frogs in your shower probably does qualify as eccentric behaviour.
But, if a person is considered completely normal in every respect except that they keep frogs in their shower (or something similar), is that enough for them to be considered an eccentric person? Or does behaviour that's considered eccentric have to be a fundamental part of your everyday demeanour for that to be the case?
Well then, to be exact, the man has/had a few eccentric hobbies, but is/was not eccentric in character.
However, when a man's habits become too peculiar and too whimsical, even if we're only talking about a couple of hobbies, wouldn't we as observers be justified in our opinion that he is eccentric? And is not the subjectivity of opinion intrinsic to the meaning of the word "eccentric"?
(Just horsing around.... )
Now, going back to my ENTP-based comparison, are ENTPs stereotypically eccentric in character, and was it fair for me to use the ENTP stereotype the way I did?
*goes off to ponder, then comes back shaking fist*
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:58 am Posts: 1904 Location: Halfway Down the Stairs
Gender: male
MBTI type: INFP
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crystaluniverse wrote:
*pats DC*
That's okay, coz you more than make up for the lack of it with the exemplary use of your other cognitive functions.
Why, thank you Miss.
Quote:
That's right. (And my only real problem with that statement is that I am guilty of wanting to engage in eccentric hobbies like matchstick-ship building. )
I just said they could be considered eccentric, I didn't say I thought there was anything wrong with them.
Quote:
Well then, to be exact, the man has/had a few eccentric hobbies, but is/was not eccentric in character.
Actually, to be really exact, we could say that the man appears to have/had hobbies that some might consider eccentric, but does not otherwise appear to behave in ways that may be considered indicative of an eccentric character.[/General Semantics inspired pedantry]
Quote:
However, when a man's habits become too peculiar and too whimsical, even if we're only talking about a couple of hobbies, wouldn't we as observers be justified in our opinion that he is eccentric? And is not the subjectivity of opinion intrinsic to the meaning of the word "eccentric"?
I'd agree that subjectivity is intrinsic to the definition of eccentricity, but whether we can say that someone "is" eccentric is perhaps determined by whether we feel that we can really say that anything "is" a thing at all, or whether we're more comfortable saying that a thing only appears to be a certain way to us.[/More General Semantics inspired pedantry] -
Quote:
*goes off to ponder, then comes back shaking fist*
You tricked me into writing post number 667!!!!
Mwahahahaha!
Quote:
*evil Hello Kitty avatar fades into Cheshire Cat*
Aw, I liked that avatar. Farewell sweet avatar, we barely knew ye.
_________________ What would the world be, once bereft Of wet and of wildness? Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet; Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet. - Gerard Manley Hopkins
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:28 am Posts: 1761
Gender: female
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DefectiveCreative wrote:
Actually, to be really exact, we could say that the man appears to have/had hobbies that some might consider eccentric, but does not otherwise appear to behave in ways that may be considered indicative of an eccentric character.[/General Semantics inspired pedantry]
(...)
I'd agree that subjectivity is intrinsic to the definition of eccentricity, but whether we can say that someone "is" eccentric is perhaps determined by whether we feel that we can really say that anything "is" a thing at all, or whether we're more comfortable saying that a thing only appears to be a certain way to us.[/More General Semantics inspired pedantry] -
FTW!
Quote:
Aw, I liked that avatar. Farewell sweet avatar, we barely knew ye.
Spoiler:
I forgot to mention that as evil Hello Kitty was fading away, she swore to come back (or should I say "come upside-down") with post # 999.
In the light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchial duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy. Your new prime minister (The Right Honourable Tony Blair, MP for the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware that there is a world outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America without the need for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded.
A questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed.
To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:
1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary. Then look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour', skipping the letter 'U' is nothing more than laziness on your part. Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters. You will end your love affair with the letter 'Z' (pronounced 'zed' not 'zee') and the suffix "ize" will be replaced by the suffix "ise". You will learn that the suffix 'burgh is pronounced 'burra' e.g. Edinburgh. You are welcome to respell Pittsburgh as 'Pittsberg' if you can't cope with correct pronunciation. Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary". Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up "interspersed". There will be no more 'bleeps' in the Jerry Springer show. If you're not old enough to cope with bad language then you shouldn't have chat shows. When you learn to develop your vocabulary then you won't have to use bad language as often.
2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take account of the reinstated letter 'u' and the elimination of "-ize".
3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents. It really isn't that hard. English accents are not limited to Cockney, upper-class twit or Mancunian (Daphne in Frasier). You will also have to learn how to understand regional accents - Scottish dramas such as "Taggart" will no longer be broadcast with subtitles. While we're talking about regions, you must learn that there is no such place as Devonshire in England. The name of the county is "Devon". If you persist in calling it Devonshire, all American States will become "shires" e.g. Texasshire, Floridashire, Louisianashire.
4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as the good guys. Hollywood will be required to cast English actors to play English characters. British sit-coms such as "Men Behaving Badly" or "Red Dwarf" will not be re-cast and watered down for a wishy-washy American audience who can't cope with the humour of occasional political incorrectness.
5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you to get confused and give up half way through.
6. You should stop playing American "football". There is only one kind of football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good game. The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your borders may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It is a difficult game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like nancies). We are hoping to get together at least a US rugby sevens side by 2005. You should stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the 'World Series' for a game which is not played outside of America. Since only 2.15% of you are aware that there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. Instead of baseball, you will be allowed to play a girls' game called "rounders" which is baseball without fancy team strip, oversized gloves, collector cards or hotdogs.
7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using nuclear weapons if they give you any merde. The 97.85% of you who were not aware that there is a world outside your borders should count yourselves lucky. The Russians have never been the bad guys. "Merde" is French for "5hit". You will no longer be allowed to own or carry guns. You will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous in public than a vegetable peeler. Because we don't believe you are sensible enough to handle potentially dangerous items, you will require a permit if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.
8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 8th will be a new national holiday, but only in England. It will be called "Indecisive Day".
9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean. All road intersections will be replaced with roundabouts. You will start driving on the left with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables. Roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.
10. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips. Fries aren't even French, they are Belgian though 97.85% of you (including the guy who discovered fries while in Europe) are not aware of a country called Belgium. Those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called "crisps". Real chips are thick cut and fried in animal fat. The traditional accompaniment to chips is beer which should be served warm and flat. Waitresses will be trained to be more aggressive with customers.
11. As a sign of penance 5 grams of sea salt per cup will be added to all tea made within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, this quantity to be doubled for tea made within the city of Boston itself.
12. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all, it is lager. From November 1st only proper British Bitter will be referred to as "beer", and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as "Lager". The substances formerly known as "American Beer" will henceforth be refered to as "Near-Frozen Knat's Urine", with the exception of the product of the American Budweiser company whose product will be referred to as "Weak Near-Frozen Knat's Urine". This will allow true Budweiser (as manufactured for the last 1000 years in Pilsen, Czech Republic) to be sold without risk of confusion.
13. From November 1st the UK will harmonise petrol (or "Gasoline" as you will be permitted to keep calling it until April 1st 2001) prices with the former USA. The UK will harmonise its prices to those of the former USA and the Former USA will, in return, adopt UK petrol prices (roughly $6/US gallon - get used to it).
14. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not adult enough to be independent. Guns should only be handled by adults. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist then you’re not grown up enough to handle a gun.
15. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.
Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all revenues due (backdated to 1776).
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