You know what bugs me? When people say I am intelligent.

Why? because I'm not really

I think INFP's come in two categories (I'm generalising here, don't pick on me :O); those that are super smart, read books, study stuff, and are ~gifted~ and those that are completely scatterbrained, completely hopeless, and dazzle the world with nonsensical musings which often get misunderstood as brilliance. I'm definitely the crazy kind. Maybe that's a different kind of intelligence, I don't know.

I don't read books, I don't like poetry, I don't quote famous people, I don't look at paintings at think "Oh quite!" whilst looking all serious. I wouldn't class myself as intelligent, yet everyone I meet does, and all because I'm quiet and articulate my words rather than shoot my mouth off every five seconds. That doesn't make me smart. Sure, I think a lot, I analyse stuff a lot, but it's mostly all nonsense and random. I don't consciously think about things, that makes my head hurt. Instead, I kinda absorb things subconsciously and make decisions without thinking of them. My thoughts either come through that subconscious pathway of no-thought or they don't come at all!

So I kinda get put off when I read about other INFP's and their intelligence, cos baby, it's all random up here!

I like it that way though.

What was I talking about again? Oh yeah! Stop calling me smart, damn you! It's just a label that creates meaning and thus expectation! I'll rather just be a glowing ball of energy that self-combust's with random knowledge than a being that can consciously be effective at making decisions.. Besides, explosions are cool, right?

Err, this sounds rather ranty, but I post for those that related and maybe feel a little fishy outta the sea in the same way, yes? ^^

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~I'll think of a witty comment later, or not. Maybe something to do with clouds?!~

I dunno, that was a pretty well written post...smartie-pants.

when i was in fifth and sixth grade, i was in a gifted class... but i was like the dumbest of them

Don't confuse intelligence with 'book learning'. Doing well in school does not define it. I suspect the more introverted one is, the longer you think about a response the more knowledgeable you will seem to those who just spout without thinking...

Gin

I hear you! Alas it seems that being quiet and thoughtful are such little valued personality assets in the ESxx-centric world we live in that they can easily be mistaken for intelligence. And as an Fi-led person you don't want people mistaking you for something you're not.

*sighs introvertedly but has no answers*

Aye exactly!

But I don't want fellow introverts thinking I'm clever either, just because I'm *one of them*! I get ousted really quickly at poetry readings

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~I'll think of a witty comment later, or not. Maybe something to do with clouds?!~

Funny that you should say that. I've noticed that quite a few other INFPs are far more well educated than myself on matters pertaining to, well you know, global politics, history, esoterics of society, and don't even get me started on finance and industry. Having said that though, I am a huge scatterbrain in that my thoughts are random (in school one of my teachers said I typified the absent minded professor) but I seem to be reasonably intelligent, at least. If I was to describe myself though I don't really base my identity on being "intelligent" or "gifted", though I suppose "cerebral" or "analytical" would be better descriptors. Doesn't say much about being an Fi-dom though. I don't read books much because, well, I'm on the computer too much. Though I do get kinda disappointed when the Internet connection goes down (it happened again yesterday, bloody frequent lately) because all those random questions I'll have pop into my head will remain unanswered No 20 tabs for me!

I know what you mean though. I know quite a few quotations but I always struggle to match the name to the saying it seems. Not that I go out of my way to memorise them, but most of them are personally relevant to me somehow, so I just store them away.

...but really, what the hell is intelligence? I think I'm stuck somewhere inbetween the two kinds you mentioned. I have a lot of musings too, but nowhere near enough confidence to share them with others who probably wouldn't care, and I come off as being more composed than crazy, I suppose. I never set out to become 'the brainy one', it just seems to be a role that follows me everywhere. You mentioned not feeling 'ready' before and having to 'mentally prepare' and I suppose that goes under the banner of learning everything you can about everything just in case it's useful because you're not completely confident. As a result there's a lot stored away there that I don't think twice about but many others seem to be quite surprised at.

Being handy with computers probably helps a lot too. I mean as a gamer come internet addict one surely knows one's way around software systems, right? But at the moment it seems to be a case of 'I'm Liam, intuitive computer wizard, say my name three times and I shall descend upon the Earth and rid you of your technological troubles' And I mean, I won't complain about that. Too much. But it annoys me when others are blind to the other sides of me, which, incidentally, I never quite know how to express in the first place. It's just awkward when you can't help but notice all the little details that people don't pick up on, and have a knack for taking in concepts quickly and holistically.

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We are beyond our own ability to define ourselves - we can only describe what we think we are.

Wow, you ramble on as much as I do

And that makes you awesome *squishes nose*

Analytical is probably the word, and I can live with that definition. I like to analyse things constantly too. Don't we all? I don't really like the concept of 'giftedness' because it implies superiority and well, we all have our own strengths and weaknesses. There probably are multiple forms of intelligence, such as emotional intelligence and what have you. Some forms are obviously more valued within a SJ society than others I guess.

Do you have MSN?

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~I'll think of a witty comment later, or not. Maybe something to do with clouds?!~

Mm yep analytical in an introspective world full of coins and daze, like rollicking goosebumps, the ability to insight and intuition is second to none.

Heh, the times I've managed to defunct from life now is like a death squad parked along my driveway and its called my family. I'm greatly knowledgeable but I don't let others define me, okay so maybe a little. I just think that the interests that captivates our attention, the knowledgeability and wisdom stores are massive and too few realise how the mind, an instant transmission between the synapse and the brain, works to express this phenomenon of us understanding the world around us and the lack of vision by others into our psyche. Because of that insight and vision people confuse it to be some sort of brainy, which we are in our specific interests but at different stages.

I'd say you have to go about it without the chit chat of getting caught up in the critical and comparatives that others value and project as the model to go by.

I have a self image of being an idealistic imaginative intellectual snob, so don't call me out on anything. Quoting old wise dead people is a given for me. As are reading "the classics", but only the ones I deem excellent. However I consider myself an incompetent fool when it comes to computers. I'm computer literate, but that's about as far as I feel I can go. I don't know how to program or anything, though I'd like to learn how. So Krentz, why my dem gom innernet keep going out every few hours or so?

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"It is a melancholy fact that massive works of the intellect do not spring from the abstract workings of the brain and the imagination; they are deeply rooted in the personality." -Paul Johnson

INFP, 4w5 sx/sp

Your post made me laugh. One thing I have discovered is that gifted people seldom feel bright. It's just that things seem to come easily to them. Your description reminds me of me. People tell me I'm intelligent, but it took years to convince me. I was in fifth grade before my reading skills were sufficient enough to read something for fun. I wasn't a book worm growing up. It was a lot of hard struggle for me to learn to read. The first time I joined an INFP forum, there was a thread running then where many members were talking about learning to read at age 4 or whatever, and reading that made me feel perfectly dumb.

I read somewhere that Einstein thought of himself as the most scatterbrained soul who ever lived. I read somewhere that intuition could be defined as subconscious learning. I am the same way. Much of the time, I make no effort to learn things, they just get absorbed by themselves. Things just stick. It's part of holistic learning style. If the subject is something that I already something else that is related, new facts just stick without me expending effort at all.

Your post is really funny. I enjoyed reading it.

You're a genious!! Heh, just joking - but you framed my problem so good that I had to post this! And since I wear glasses the "smart-ass" label is almost inevitable...

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"I pray because I'm helpless. It flows out of me all the time waking and sleeping. It doesn't change God it changes me."(Shadowlands)

Glad you enjoyed

I think, academically speaking, some people are better at reaching the criteria required to get a good mark on a essay, for example, than others, and then you get people who score high at IQ tests because they are good at taking the test; they're not 100% accurate at judging intelligence.

You also get things like dyslexia altering the equation etc.

There is a guy on my course that can do the work really quickly and does not need to put much effort in, and he's aced pretty much everything. The guy is a genius. I'm pretty good at surviving the academic world without much effort, but I can't quite reach the same level as he has. But, if there is one thing I have learned from studying, it's that some people will be naturally good at a something, and other people will not be. That does not mean those who are not naturally 'clever' with something cannot be as clever, it just means they need to put more effort and work into becoming as good as those people. I think everyone experiences that frustration at least once in their lives

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~I'll think of a witty comment later, or not. Maybe something to do with clouds?!~

intelligence is a function of both how much you've learned and how your brain processes information. fluid and chrystallized...

What is Fluid Intelligence?
Cattell defined fluid intelligence as "…the ability to perceive relationships independent of previous specific practice or instruction concerning those relationships." Fluid intelligence is the ability to think and reason abstractly and solve problems. This ability is considered independent of learning, experience, and education. Examples of the use of fluid intelligence include solving puzzles and coming up with problem solving strategies.
What is Crystallized Intelligence?
Crystallized intelligence is learning from past experiences and learning. Situations that require crystallized intelligence include reading comprehension and vocabulary exams. This type of intelligence is based upon facts and rooted in experiences. This type of intelligence becomes stronger as we age and accumulate new knowledge and understanding.

LS you are saying because you don't have as much chrystallized intelligence as other people that you don't have as much fluid intelligence either, but that isn't necessarily true.

anyhow, it is a fact that some people are smarter than others, and statistically those people are more sucessful in life. but its not completely determinant of anything. and yeah, i'd love to solve string theory and win the nobel prize, but... meh. its fun just marvelling at it too

i enjoy using my brain. its enough for me

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Isn't it pretty to think so?

Haha, on a WAIS-3 test i got quite good results, but I suspect it was because the person who tested me was a nice lady. That kept my attention.

In school I got terrible results (which is perhaps a bit ironic since IQ-tests are supposed to only be reliable when predicting school results. Guess I showed them wrong )

I think my bad results in school where because of lack of human interaction in tasks and written assignemts, and lack of personal relationsship to motivate me in huge classes where I was only one in the crowd. When there was no one to hold my attention, my mind drifted (similar to calvin and hobbes ).
And I'm not good at predicting peoples reaction to what I write, but if the person is in front of me, I'm usually capable of knowing when I'm "off" by seeing the other persons reaction. Like when I jump over a detail when constructing logical arguments, in front of a person I can see something is wrong, but when writting by myself I don't notice it.

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Is the cup half-full or half-empty? Neither, the cup is the rightful domain of air,
and water are the imperialistic invader that must be fought by all means neccesary.
Drink it.

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If only this were fiction ...

Pah, IQ tests, who has time for those?

My INTP hubby is always proud of getting a high score on them, and I always load it up thinking "I'll show them I'm teh smartz!" but then after the first question I can't be bothered and just close the window, hah

Anyone else have a high IQ? Anyone else can't be bothered to find out?

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~I'll think of a witty comment later, or not. Maybe something to do with clouds?!~

Truth be told I'm not sure. I used to be quite curious but now, in the way that I perceive my level of intelligence in context, as it fits in with the rest of my life, I'm not too bothered. I have taken a number of online IQ tests but I always take them with a sizeable pinch of salt. They generally tend to be in the 120-140 range (I remember one that had scores in different areas - verbal/linguistic was highest, and processing time was significantly lower than the rest - slow but thorough, I guess).

I remember taking a test on the International High IQ society website and barely passing for membership, but they were after me paying to join! As if people would pay to join an online, poor man's MENSA if they were that intelligent to begin with. What a farce.

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We are beyond our own ability to define ourselves - we can only describe what we think we are.

Haha, I'm the same

I start the test, and after the second question I'm just "screw this" and closes the window.

When I was 17 I went to a psychiatrist. I was very confused at those times and rambled incoherently, so I suspect they thought I was retarded . I also got piss-poor grades, barely passed my classes.

But my WAIS-3 test showed quite high intelligence. It was satisfying to see that weird, confused expression on my psychiatrist when he saw the result.

Anyway, the elderly lady who performed the test on me (real iq test has to be taken with real person) smiled at me, and I guess that made me muster the effort. At school, I had no real relation with the teachers and was thus not interested in performing well for them.

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Is the cup half-full or half-empty? Neither, the cup is the rightful domain of air,
and water are the imperialistic invader that must be fought by all means neccesary.
Drink it.

Hmm, that's interesting. There seems to be a recurring pattern among INFPs - the ones who underachieved academically usually did so because they weren't motivated, and in our case motivation comes as much if not more so from personal relationships as from intrinsic sources. I have rarely, if ever, heard of an INFP who lacked the capacity or capability to do well. It's like a close friend I have, who is either ENFP or INFP... his school grades were atrocious, but he's clearly a very sharp and penetrating thinker, sometimes to his detriment (mental health, etc).

Though I usually like to think I did well in school because I was encouraged by my parents and wanted to do well out of competitiveness and pride - it's also true that I can barely recall any teachers I disliked. Only in primary school, really. Most of them I got on well with. Although, the ones I really did like I did particularly well for. I always used to go and talk to them after everyone else in the class had left, as I had a lot of questions I wanted to ask, but wasn't comfortable putting my insights and opinions "on display" to the rest of the class - especially as most were critical of intellectual prowess.

There were very few 'bad teachers', just ones misunderstood by the class, I found. But there still were a few, thankfully found in obscure or inconsequential subjects. I didn't like my ICT teacher much, either. I didn't respect him. It seemed like I always asked questions outside of his immediate area of expertise.

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We are beyond our own ability to define ourselves - we can only describe what we think we are.