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Board index » Conversations » The Heart




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 Post subject: How to talk to little girls
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:54 am 
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Grand high Poobah
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Thoughts? :)


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 Post subject: Re: How to talk to little girls
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:09 am 
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The powers that be
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Thoughts:

1) Sometimes I have to pinch myself when I hear about this kind of thing because it's as if feminism never actually happened. This ultra-girliness was just not around when I was growing up (70s/80s) and young girls who were overtly into make-up and clothes - a minority - were regarded with slight condescension as being too obvious about being husband hunters. (Nothing has changed since Jane Austen, sciski! I'll fight you to be Lizzie Bennet!)

2) I actually had an incident of this sort yesterday when you posted this sciski. I have two good friends (who I shall give pseudonyms as they are unlikely to ever read this but you never know), Lily and Katie, both younger than me, in their late 20s. Lily by the way is stunningly beautiful and gets mistaken in the street for a particular supermodel - heads turn and conversations pause when she enters a bar and it can be quite an experience going out with her. Anyway we were together one evening and Katie was recounting a tale of how she had a romantic encounter with a young man and during the course of their conversation it became apparent that he found her very clever and was hanging off every word she said. She laughed and said, "Don't you hate it when they put you on a pedestal like that?" and I agreed, remembering one or two similar experiences I had had in the past.

Lily became very quiet at this point and looked sad. With tears in her eyes, she replied, "Nobody has ever said that to me," and went on to explain that men had only ever commented on her looks and not ever on her personality or mind (she is a high school English teacher in an inner-city school as well as being uncommonly sweet and caring - think Dangerous Minds).

Anyway, fast forward to yesterday, and Lily is getting married later on this month. The above incident suddenly popped into my head and I had an idea: wouldn't it be lovely if, in his speech, her new husband did not join the ranks of all those men who praised her only for her looks but instead told everybody what he loves about her personality? It would be both a surprise and, I think, deeply appreciated and welcomed. I shall be running it by the gentleman concerned before the big day.

I suppose my point in mentioning this is that beauty is not just an easy ride and has its own set of issues.


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 Post subject: Re: How to talk to little girls
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:26 am 
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Grand high Poobah
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Pipster wrote:
(Nothing has changed since Jane Austen, sciski! I'll fight you to be Lizzie Bennet!)

She who is 'not pretty enough to tempt' Mr Darcy? You're on!!

Quote:
Lily became very quiet at this point and looked sad. With tears in her eyes, she replied, "Nobody has ever said that to me," and went on to explain that men had only ever commented on her looks and not ever on her personality or mind (she is a high school English teacher in an inner-city school as well as being uncommonly sweet and caring - think Dangerous Minds).

Yes, the hypothetical version of this situation was crossing my mind through the entire article. Thinking of the girls who happen to have been born beautiful, who get this sort of treatment and feel sad, but other women tend to think that those with beauty 'have it all' so they can't express their sadness without seeming spoiled.

I'm glad that Lily has found someone who values her for who she is, not just her surface. :)

Quote:
Anyway, fast forward to yesterday, and Lily is getting married later on this month. The above incident suddenly popped into my head and I had an idea: wouldn't it be lovely if, in his speech, her new husband did not join the ranks of all those men who praised her only for her looks but instead told everybody what he loves about her personality? It would be both a surprise and, I think, deeply appreciated and welcomed. I shall be running it by the gentleman concerned before the big day.

That is a wonderful idea! And a wonderful wedding gift. :)

Quote:
I suppose my point in mentioning this is that beauty is not just an easy ride and has its own set of issues.


I was the less attractive sister in my family, and have always been thankful for it. Though I always had my own weird version of self-esteem, where I thought I looked just fine, even if society wasn't telling me so! It's the best of delusions. :-D


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 Post subject: Re: How to talk to little girls
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:53 am 
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The powers that be
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sciski wrote:
Pipster wrote:
(Nothing has changed since Jane Austen, sciski! I'll fight you to be Lizzie Bennet!)

She who is 'not pretty enough to tempt' Mr Darcy? You're on!!


Prithee raise thy ladyfists!

*ties bonnet*

:twisted:

Actually here is what la Austen herself had to say about the subject:

Jane Austen wrote:
It would be mortifying to the feelings of many ladies, could they be made to understand how little the heart of a man is affected by what is costly or new in their attire... Woman is fine for her own satisfaction alone. No man will admire her the more, no woman will like her the better for it. Neatness and fashion are enough for the former, and a something of shabbiness or impropriety will be most endearing to the latter.


(From Northanger Abbey)


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 Post subject: Re: How to talk to little girls
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:18 pm 
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Master of the cookieverse
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sciski wrote:


:love:

Here's an amazingly talented young lady who has a message for little girls:


Just a teenager (at 16), and already a role model!

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 Post subject: Re: How to talk to little girls
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:52 am 
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Pleasantly aromatic
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Well said, Bloom!

Our culture barrages girls with some pretty awful messages. Multi-billion dollar beauty industry aside, I think the fact that Twilight is so popular is an indication of it. I mean a series that is beloved by so many girls contains a disturbingly codependent relationship between a somebody-call-the-abuse-hotline controlling guy and the teenage girl who is suicidal without him. Written by a woman. That really eats me.

On an interpersonal level, I have a couple of young cousins, aged 7 and 11, and I never talk to them about things like their looks or beauty. The 11 year old has one of the most brilliant, inquiring brains ever, which is awesome. She explained to me how street light sensors work when she was 6 or 7 :love: The 7 year old is a tougher task, she's mostly interested in barbies and clothes, but I try to steer the conversation towards books and animals and things like that.


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 Post subject: Re: How to talk to little girls
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:11 pm 
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Pleasantly aromatic
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Definitely a good effort to try and undo some of the harm of the constant barrage of pressure girls get from the media and the people around them to "look pretty". On the other hand it creeps me out when adults try to talk to children as if they were adults. There is something calculating and unnatural in it that makes my hair stand on end, even though I don't doubt good intentions. Talking to them like babies is just irritating too... maybe some happy medium? Perhaps it's not my place to comment as a childless male.


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