Does anybody else do this? I want to open this up for discussion, rather than making it an advice thread, because I suspect that most of us have had these experiences.

By "these experiences," I mean that Fi kicks in and you RUN from a relationship or do insensitive things that you later regret. I've noticed that this is a pattern for me. It's gotten to where I really need to address the issue.

Usually it's like, some situation brings out all of my latent worries about the relationship, and Fi catapults me into using those as a quick excuse out of the relationship. It's happened many times for me, and I have a hard time separating panic from intuition when in that stage.

Is this an INFP thing? Anybody else had similar experiences? If so, how do you bring the light of clarity in?

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“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” Jalal ad-Din Rumi

My spiritual explorations: http://sundrenchedclarity.wordpress.com

That would actually explain a lot :O

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~I'll think of a witty comment later, or not. Maybe something to do with clouds?!~

*raises hand* Guilty >.<;.

I can relate somewhat.

It happens almost every time a relationship is moving from acquintance to friendship. It is a barrier that very few people get to pass. Usually it is when someone wants to hang out with me outside work or do something outside that zone where we are acquintances. Like it is a huge investment to spend time with someone, something to be carefully considered.

I try to work around this by thinking that it really is not such a big deal. It's not like I have to marry these people.

Is this the same thing as you experience?

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Is the cup half-full or half-empty? Neither, the cup is the rightful domain of air,
and water are the imperialistic invader that must be fought by all means neccesary.
Drink it.

Not quite, it sounds like a different form of Fi sabotaging, though the same at heart. I have the opposite problem...not so much now, during the summer, but definitely while I am at school--I tend to spend too MUCH time with other people because I tend to think it's one of the most important investments I could make with my time. It's just more of a priority for me because I base more of my identity around social time than you probably do, so I tend to err on the side of spending too much rather than too little time with people.

However, I have known one or two other INFP's who were more careful giving away their time and were reluctant to give up their alone time. My guess is that you're more of a self-preservation Enneagram subtype, if you are familiar with that system?

I'm talking more about relationships in a romantic sense, getting into panic mode when some issue sets you off and acting irrationally, doing things you later regret. But I see no reason why that shouldn't include friendships, because Fi can totally get in the way there too, as you have pointed out. :-/

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“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” Jalal ad-Din Rumi

My spiritual explorations: http://sundrenchedclarity.wordpress.com

*raises hand* Guilty as charged, I'm afraid

In fact, I'm so guilty of this that I may as well have written the textbook on it (not that that would be a textbook I'd advise anybody to read). The way it would manifest with me would be: meet guy, go on a handful of dates, start to get to know each other, then Fi begins whispering in my ear, "yes, but what about his funny walk/snoring/loud voice/politics... how on earth could you go out with somebody like THAT?" Cue rapid cooling of interest from my side, leading to me breaking off a potentially promising budding relationship for nothing more than the poor guy being human and having (what I considered to be) a shortcoming or two

In my case, the revelation came in the form of a reality slap from a wise and perceptive longstanding ENFJ friend. I was whinging about yet another potential suitor and how he fell short of the mark and she gently pointed out to me that I was not even giving these guys a chance, but was calling time on something potentially promising without even getting to know them first. She also reminded me that I was being unfair by expecting boyfriends to accept me as I was, 'warts and all', but refusing to extend the same courtesy to them in return. At this point the penny finally dropped for me and I spent quite some time having a long and guilty think about how I had behaved in the past, and about some of the lovely men I had shoved hard-heartedly aside

I don't know if this could be described as an exclusively INFP phenomenon but I think it's certainly common among INFPs. Sometimes we can be so romantically idealistic that we would rather reject reality in order to preserve our fantasy of what a romantic relationship should be like, and that's where our eager bodyguard Fi comes in, rushing about and cutting people off at the first hurdle rather than let us take a risk and be vulnerable. Fi means well, but when allowed to run amok like this would rather see us safe but lonely, hidden away in an ivory tower of our own construction.

As for how to bring in the light of clarity - it sounds like you already have that awareness Life_isPoetry, at least from an intellectual perspective. It can be another matter putting it into practice though and that's the hard bit! In my case I think I just decided that it was time to get real and change my beliefs. I would summarise the change as follows:

- Accept that life and relationships are a series of wonderfully messy and imperfect situations that require work, commitment, patience, tolerance and all sorts of other dull-sounding attributes.
- Reject the idea that romantic relationships are a non-stop high involving staring into each other's eyes and wordless understanding, along with freedom from ever being irritated by each other.

Putting this into practice involved making an effort to purposely override the Fi-panic button that would go off when Mr New Guy would [insert shortcoming] by sternly asking myself whether the fact that he did this was REALLY a make-or-break thing.

Writing it all down like this and seeing it in the cold light of day makes me feel quite ashamed of how I used to carry on

Ohhhh, this is what I long to say to some of my female friends at the moment. I am sometimes flabbergasted when they list their expectations of their future partner. I think--but this perfectly wartless guy... why would he want you? (though I love my friends, they definitely have their warts!) It didn't help that many of those expectations were quite superficial in my opinion...


It might be the Fi+Si combination--the friends I'm thinking of are all STJ variants. Si sets the standard (and it's a subjective standard, as Si is an introverted function) and Fi protects the standard.

Pipster, it's so admirable that you were able to see through your own thought patterns, and make the change in your attitude. I'm really glad you shared your experience, even though it made you feel ashamed. I'd say it's worth it.

Thanks sciski. Hearing that you think my disclosure was worth sharing cancels out a tiny bit of my shame

When you mention longing to tell your female friends a few home truths, it made me think of an article I read recently in which the novelist Joanna Trollope (who is in her mid 60s) described how she thought modern women have unrealistic expectations of men and relationships. (I would link to the article, but essentially she said what I quote below and the newspaper commissioned a 1,000 word piece around it - the rest [IMO] is not worth reading.)

So basically you were the characters from Seinfeld?

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What would the world be, once bereft
Of wet and of wildness? Let them be left,
O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet. - Gerard Manley Hopkins

hahaha Bromide, I love that. And yes, I definitely view the trajectory of a potential relationship before there's even a relationship. I do this with potential friendships even more frequently than potential romances. I've found that people often let me down (perhaps I'm too idealistic about people?), so I just cut to the chase with any new person I meet and try to figure out what they're going to do to me before I get close enough to get burned. Sounds awfully anti-social of me, doesn't it? I'm generally a friendly person, it's just an ever-present subconscious protective reflex.

I can relate to predicting the trajectory of a relationship before it even begins.. it's both a strength and a weakness, depending on how accurate the prediction was (when it comes to relationships I think would not work out). If it was accurate, I've saved myself and themselves some time and potential heartache. If inaccurate, then that's an opportunity for friendship missed. It can be quite tough striking the balance.

I will say that the moment I saw my ex-housemate, I knew she was a deeply unhappy person--not really an intuitive thing, anybody with at least half a working brain cell attuned to sensitivity would have realised it--but I ignored my own initial reaction, tried to increase her happiness, it seemed to work, yet got burned nevertheless.

But we had some good times and have patched things up... so if you take each relationship as a learning experience, even if they burn you, you've experienced some more of the richness of life. The caveat being that rich things in life can sometimes make you feel ill... and also that some people will not just burn, but pillage and piss on the ashes... then yeah, I'd happily forgo those experiences!

Hmm, perhaps too much alcohol for me tonight... I like the cartoon as well Bromide.

How do you feel your enneagram may play into this?

As a 4w5, I see my 5 wing operating a lot when dating. I feel smothered easily, begin to withdraw before any real connection can be made, use "projects" as an excuse to be busy, avoid phone calls, etc. A daily phone call feels like some massive intrusion I begin to resent (but talking on the phone is really annoying!!. My autonomy feels VERY threatened all of a sudden, when mere weeks before I was probably lamenting being lonely .

Being a 4 also seems to enhance the idealistic, fantasy aspect so common in an INFP's infatuation. I fall for ideas of people, often people removed enough in some way so as to be unattainable, making the fantasy less threatened by reality. Then when I do actually date someone, I am always disappointed. It's not a checklist they get held up to (although, coming from a "reformed pity dater" I suggest having some basic standards), but a feeling evoked from something they can never be, as they're just a flawed human and not an ideal fantasy. 4s also supposedly desire their emotional needs to be met very quickly. I'm not sure if "needs" is the right word, but I do expect to "connect" quickly, and I tend to blame the other person if it does not happen (even though, meanwhile, I've been pulling my 5 wing antics and keeping the guy at arm's length, unwilling to open up & make myself available emotionally).

The over fantasizing and disappearing acts tend to end all of my romantic relationships at the 4 month mark (max), where they then die rather swiftly & painlessly. I exit the relationship greatly relieved.... Now that I see something resembling a cycle, I'm concerned with how to stop it; How do I get past the fear of losing my identity in someone? Of losing my independence? Of getting stuck with the "wrong" person? How do I mitigate the disappointment of the reality of the person/relationship compared to the fantasy? How do I allow myself to be vulnerable with someone, so a real connection can be made? This is stuff I've been thinking about....

Other issues for me are:
- There is also a fear that I will be rejected once they know the "real" me. Instead of hiding the supposed "real me", I can actually go on offense & become slightly difficult to "test" the person. This is also very much a 4 thing, to make people walk on eggshells.
- Insult/degrade/violate my values/beliefs, even unknowingly, and I'm OUT, possibly without any explanation. Questioning can be done, but tread lightly. I can definitely be too sensitive at times.
- Back to the fear of rejection, this can increase the fantasy aspect, of preferring those imagined relationships to real ones, as they are less "risky".
- I'm too critical of people's flaws. I'm sooo forgiving when not dating, but then I start to think about marriage (as that's my reason for dating - to find marriage mate). The mere thought of committing for life to someone can make their flaws magnified. I start to imagine the possible conflicts down the road, and these sour my feelings for the person.

^ There may be some sp (self-preservation) instinct going on as well.

That sounds like quite a tough situation... maybe have more compassion for yourself (it's okay for the real you not to be perfect) just as you can have more compassion for others (it's also okay for them not to be perfect)... nothing in life is perfect. Perfection is boring!

Though I guess I don't fully understand, not being 4w5 myself.

Agreed, the fear of losing independence sounds very much like an sp thing to me.
For comparison, as an so/sx my focus is usually on the friendship aspect of a relationship - a sort of "We're friends first, partners second" kind of deal. I'm less focussed on the the sx perspective of being suuper-duuper intimate with someone (though I do like the idea), and I can't really say I'm at all troubled by the sp-ish thought of losing my independence.

I do relate to the 5 wing thing of needing lots of personal space though, which can't be easy for the extroverts and sexual variants in my life.

_________________
What would the world be, once bereft
Of wet and of wildness? Let them be left,
O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet. - Gerard Manley Hopkins

In response to the question about how Enneagram affects this, I'm a 6, so my main concern in life is that I'll be socially rejected. Which clearly feeds this relationship sabotage very directly. Though instead of relationship sabotage, I consider it to be relationship avoidance or skepticism. I don't intentionally make people not want to be around me, I simply avoid starting a relationship or constantly look for possible problems in a relationship. It's sad, because as a 6, my main desire in life is to have social acceptance, and as an INFP, relationships and people are incredibly important to me. So it's an inner struggle of wanting to be close to people, but then not having the courage/strength to work towards that.

Alex_Askew, I think it's natural for 6s to struggle with a push-pull kind of syndrome--wanting to belong to the group and having a strong sense of loyalty, yet also being very skeptical at the same time. As with everything, it's a strength and a weakness. I'm saying this because I don't think it's a matter of not having strength/courage--just one of the signs that you're a type 6 (though of course you can work around this when you really want a relationship).

Yes, my instinctual stacking is sp/sx.

On the enneagram institute site, there's a page on possible romantic relationship obstacles for each type, and I definitely identified with the 5 type a lot, but also with the 4 type.



For you 9s:


I definitely relate to these statements from personalitypage.com also, as far as my experiences in actual relationships:

This has been an interesting eye opener for me.

Usually, I end up sabotaging my relationships because of my own insecurities with worrying that I will not be good enough for the person that I'm currently dating (judging myself). It is a severe paradox for me, because I actually feel subtly arrogant when I'm dating someone. I am constantly judging the person I am getting to know, and assessing how we can make changes to better the relationship to a more productive direction.

Sadly, this has been rather off putting to men because it is taken as being controlling.

I find I am constantly assessing what others are thinking, and using ques based on what I see, hear and filter as making some sense of what is happening for the other person. Then I ask many questions around what I intuit, but this has at times proved to be invasive for the other party involved.

The OP states she "runs" from the relationship when her insecurities build up. But Life_isPoetry, I am wondering if you express your thoughts and feelings (fears) to others in your relationships? If so, how have the results manifested?

If not, why not?

I'm curious about that part. By "judging" do you mean coming to a conclusion immediately or trying to make an educated guess about the behavioral patterns and motivations of the person? I also have this tendency to want any relationship to become more "productive" in a sense - because I'm interested in seeing both myself and the other party grow through the relationship, amd I wouldn't want the relationship to stagnate. But I tend more to look down as far as I can into a person's behaviors, attitudes and motivations, without really coming to an immediate conclusion about that person. I have a wait and see attitude most of the time.

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